Honduras’ interim government on Sunday rejected Arias’s proposal.
While Arias warned of a civil war, the Honduran government also disauthorized the Zelaya negotiating team following Zelaya’s insistence on amending the Constitution.
Arias asked for a 72-hour extension for the negotiations to continue.
Meanwhile, prior to being expelled from the country, Zelaya had a statue and a bust of himself ready for display, supposedly for after the referendum (h/t Eneas).
While Chavez has done his outmost to stoke the flames in Honduras with talk of civil war,
Speaking in Bolivia, Chavez said Honduras’ army would not be able to control popular pressure for Zelaya’s reinstatement. “What do they want? A civil war? The people will sweep them away,” he said.
and saying the negotiations were “dead before they started”, and Mel Zelaya was threatening to return to Honduras in secret and attempt to retake power on his own if no agreement is reached, things have cooled down a lot since Friday:
Bloomberg says it’s a “stalemate”:
Costa Rican-brokered talks to resolve a three-week political stalemate in Honduras will continue for a second day as delegations remain deadlocked over the main issue of reinstating deposed President Manuel Zelaya.
Representatives of Zelaya and acting President Roberto Micheletti, who both claim to represent the “constitutional government” of Honduras, agreed to review a seven-point proposal by Costa Rican President Oscar Arias in an attempt to reach an agreement today.
Noticias 24 says it differently: Las negociaciones de Costa Rica seguirán y Zelaya aplaza su ‘ultimatum’ hasta el 24 Negotiations will continue in Costa Rica and Zelaya postpones his ultimatum [deadline] to [July] 24th.
Here is Arias reading (in Spanish) the seven points proposal [My translation: if you use this, please credit me and link to this post]:
1. Zelaya’s legitimate reinstatement until the end of his period ending January 27 next year, when he will give up his office and allow an election overseen by the international community.
2. Forming a government of unity and national reconciliation composed by representatives of the main political parties.
3. A general amnesty on all political crimes incurred during this conflict before and after last July [sic, should be June] 28.
4. President Zelaya’s expressed resignation, and of his goverment, from attempting to place a fourth ballot box in the next elections, or to bring about any popular consultation not directly authorized by the Honduran Constitution.
5. Moving up the national election from November 29th to the last Sunday in October, and moving up the electoral campaign from early September to late August.
6. Transfer the command of the armed forces from the executive power to the Supreme Electoral Tribunal a month prior to the elections in order to guarantee transparency and normalcy of the vote, in accordance to the terms of the Honduran Constitution.
7. The formation of a Verification Commission, composed of notable Hondurans and members of international organs, especially representatives of the Organization of American States, that would watch over the compliance of these agreements and supervise the correct return to constitutional order.
Negotiators for Honduras’ interim government said they didn’t have the authority to accept the Costa Rican president’s plan that calls for the return of Manuel Zelaya.
Talks may continue today, according to Reuters:
Mediation talks aimed at resolving Honduras’ political crisis will resume on Sunday, a senior Costa Rican government official said on Saturday after talks broke for the day.
Pablo Gueren, adviser to the minister of the Costa Rican presidency, told reporters in San Jose the two sides in the conflict would study a proposed agreement overnight.
From my perspective, Nobel Prize winner Arias’s proposal basically throws Honduras under the bus, and point #6 contravenes the Honduran Constitution directly.
Don’t miss Sean Fairburn‘s article at Big Hollywood (h/t Red Alerts).
I take it that Honduras has strict gun control so the citizens have no means of expressing their opinions in a terminal fashion?
Elroy Jetson says
This has all the makings of a classic clusterf**k. You’ve got the moonbat Arias doing everything possible to broker a deal, you’ve got Chavez and Zelaya chest-thumping and making terroristic threats against civil society and a liberal USA complicit in this whole charade. And the only thing Honduras has on its side is the truth.
What a circus!
Civil society is not run by coup d’etat
The terrorism is entirely in the armed coup. If the coup plotters were so sure of their Nation-wide support why then did they not allow the non-binding referendum to go ahead? Surely from what they claim The People would support their point of view on the situation and vote with a resounding NO.
Because they did not allow this to happen the world can see that their claims to be supporters of Democracy are false. They should be removed by any means, Mel should not even be talking to these terrorists, they have no legitimacy.
“4. President Zelaya’s expressed resignation, and of his goverment, from attempting to place a fourth ballot box in the next elections, or to bring about any popular consultation not directly authorized by the Honduran Constitution.”
Uh… he expressed his resignation?
Is Arias saying that in accordance with what Zelaya learned in his human resources orientation session (the powerpoint presentation entitled “The Constitution, Requesting Permanent Vacation Leave, and You”) when he took office that you break the constitution and you quit automatically).
Or did Arias just say “whatever” Zelaya’s still in charge of the country cause he’s the Z-man, baby, and I can do anything…
If it’s item 1, it’s not throwing Honduras under the bus as much as some would want, if it’s item 2, WTF?
Fausta, #7 sounds like an excuse to send in more Venezuelan or Nica “rablerousers” to make a mess of the Nov elections. I would NOT trust the OAS at this point.
Seán, did you read the question as it was to be presented on 28 June versus what Mel had explained it to be? It was not non-binding as he had previously described. But the wording of the question is actually moot; the mere fact that he himself called for the consultative referendum is unconstitutional. I do not exculpate some of the misdeeds of the de facto government, but before taking such a stance it would behoove you to understand all the political facts first. Saludos.
GM Roper says
Zelaya to Honduras: “I double-dog dare you to cross this line.”
“OK, this line!”
“Alright, this line!”
Alec Rawls says
Any reinstatement of Zelaya will violate the law, because according to article 239 of the Constitution, anyone who even advocates changing the term limit is immediately removed from office. The Honduran Supreme Court removed Zelaya from office under this and other constitutional provisions.
Arias is joining in the Obama, Chavez, Morales, Castro, Zelaya criminality.
Sean – the Honduran Constitution says that Zelaya CANNOT have his referendum. It is not a matter of opinion. It is a matter of law. The institutions of the Honduran government are following the law. Zelaya worked hard to break it and break it in several ways. In doing so, he has chosen to forgo being president of Honduras.
The rule of law is often ignored, as you are doing, but we as human beings do that at our peril. It is the law that protects the people in their freedom and gives them recourse against the powerful. Zelaya is one of those that we the people need to be protected from.
Honduras should not negotiate with Zelaya the Lawbreaker. The only thing he deserves is a jail cell.
Pat Patterson says
Unfortunately Arias seems to have adopted a negotiating treaty that gives a knife to Zelaya and one to Michelleti. And then taps his foot impatiently waiting for Michelleti to cut his own throat.
The fact is Zelaya’s return would pose too many insurmountable problems.
Honduran Supreme Court, Honduran Congress, Honduran Human Rights Commissioner, Honduran Anti-Corruption Commissioner, Both current major presidential candidates, Both major political parties, Two of the three small political parties, Honduran Military, Honduran Supreme Electoral Tribune, Former President of the Supreme Court, At least two former presidents of Honduras, Honduran business associations, Mayor of Tegucigalpa, Mayor of La Ceiba, Mayor of Choluteca, Many other Honduran mayors, Honduras’ Catholic Cardinal, Evangelical churches, Most American expatriates living in Honduras, Many expatriates from other countries in Honduras, Numerous civil groups, Many missionaries and other charitable groups working with the poor are all against his return. That would make him a rather ineffectual leader should he return.
This would mean that his course of action would be to purge those against him from positions in authority. He would be left with little if any opposition, and we would have a dictator. A dictator which would be cheered on by the international community.
Of course, his next move will most likely be an attempt on his life (which will fail, assuming he’s more useful to Chavez alive than dead for his political agenda) so that he can accuse the current government of violence.
Mark my words, he will get someone to try to kill him.
Kathy- It is indeed not a matter of opinion but your (and most) view(s) are as far as i can tell a bit short sited. Sean makes a fine point is saying the “terrorism is in the armed coup”. While it is true that Zelaya was outside the wording of the constitution. However the current constitution was penned on Jan 20th 1982 during a military dictatorship. There too lies a great act of terror and one that needs be adressed.
La Gringa says
@Elroy: “And the only thing Honduras has on its side is the truth.”
Yes, but we can’t get anyone to report it! Thanks go to Fausta and few like her who look a little deeper at the situation and get a few other to look a little deeper. But it is taking too long. Honduras needs to be recognized by at least one country, then maybe more will follow.
Did you hear about the one (Enrique Flores Lanza, Minister of the Presidency and member of mediation team) who walked into the Central Bank of Honduras and withdrew L.40 million IN CASH (for bribes) two days before the election? No? I didn’t think so. Ask your newspapers why they didn’t report it. There is tons of proof, including security camera shots of him wheeling the cash out in a grocery cart! Can you think of any legitimate reason why a gov’t official would need (in US $) $2.1 million in cash?
#4, a better translation would be ‘renounce’ rather than ‘resign’, as in Zelaya and his government renounce all intentions to…..
No Boxer, the it’s not terrorism and to do so is to show contempt for the victims of the real McCoy. And the constitution’s clauses to indemnify the government against extended executive terms were penned in part due to keep a dictatorship for life (or a presidency for life if you prefer, which perhaps ypu do) to prevent the previous situation from ever happening again. Terrorism, my ass.
The removal of Zelaya was arguably illegal — fine deal with the military who put him on the plane. His removal from office, however, was not only legal but hardwired into that constitution that you stupidly call an act of terrorism. Any arrests of Zelaya when he returns will similarly be legal… We now have, on top of everything else, evidence that they already had election results from an official but non-binding “consultation.” And finally, any head of state making busts and statues of himself should be required for a mandatory head check. At best, it’s in bad tast, creepy, and narcicistic. At worse, it’s a common sign that he’s wasn’t planning on being a 1-termer.
Pat Patterson says
boxer-But the writing of the Constitution of Honduras marked the end of military rule. That was one of the conditions of adoption when it was approved one week after a new civilian government took over. Plus a coup supplants civilian authority not as happened in that the military acted on the authority of the existing government. And the military is still taking its orders from the civilian authorities. I pointed out weeks ago that the correct term is pronunciamento. Where the military under civilian leadership acts against one particular officer holder or group of office holders with the controlling document being either statute or consititution.
Honduras is the last bastion of Freedom thoughout the World and we need to support them anyway we can.
The usa has lost their way and are about to fall to Ohhhbama’s communisn!
VIVA LOS CATRACHOS
All dictators have huge egos that matches their facial hair.
And lets have a thought experiment. When the legal government declares martial law (e.g., during an natural disaster) the military overrides, in part or in total, local government. Does that make those instances coups (or mini-coups if you will)? Using the “dumbed down” definition that everyone us using to satisfy their Honduras narrative of what coup is the, the answer to that is yes. Silly? Yes. Unless you are talking about a single country where the military removed (under orders of the other two branches of government) an errant (and self-resigned) president who was flouting the law and constitution.
Bill- I am sure you and I will often disagree on what is a “freedom fighter” and what is a “terrorist”. This may, from time to time, cause disagreement on what is terrorism! It would in fact be dangerous for me to say some of what I would otherwise say amongst friends, as some of my opinions could now be considered “treason” in Australia, resulting in 7 years gaol (jail). What I can safely say is that the shooting of individuals in the streets when Zelaya 1st tried to return is far from any part of any democratic process and all this could be resolved with a fourth ballot box (especially since the current regime claims to have 80-90% support….only the CASTRO brothers have ever claimed that mandate?????). However, here once again as with Tiean En Men Square (international outrage) versus The Caracazo (barely a mention) we have chronic lack of international reporting/opinion on Honduras versus The Whyga Chinese. This is of course due to the illusion of democracy in The Americas. We now know better, since this system is something that has clearly been exposed by Chavez (and others) for what it…..is a network of oligarchies…..probably set up under “operation condor” (I speculate).
So yes Pat Petterson- The current constitution was penned right at the end of a dictatorship but by a government “elected” in 1980 (excluding socialists…clearly a political current desired by “some” of the population) that lacked balance and, hence, an oligarchy.
N.B This is not entirely different to how I perceive the current situation in Australia….looks like it’s 7 years gaol for me (they just gotta take my mates too?????).
Bill- please feel free to tell me what the “real McCoy is”!!
Bill- About the statue (the “link” is in Spanish so forgive my ignorance of it’s purpose/intent….and like i said international reporting is weak on this matter). However it hardly looks built to last. If it were bronze or gold, I’d panic. Are you sure it wasn’t for a child’s birthday party (scary thought in it’s self)???
Just had a second look at that statue. It’s a three termer(?) for sure. Just cause the U.S. has two terms doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t aspire to more. I’m also wondering if that statue might have been heading to “The Honduran Gallery Of Great Political Achievement”- yet to be built.
By the way the colour would fade outdoors it is NOT made to last at ALL?
boxer- about the statue: A) Our ex-president was a notorious coke-fiend, and B) He is as stable a skateboard on a canoe.
> 7. The formation of a Verification Commission, composed of notable Hondurans and members of international organs, especially representatives of the Organization of American States, that would watch over the compliance of these agreements and supervise the correct return to constitutional order.
Great. All Honduras needs is Jimmy Carter to f*** things up.
> Kathy- It is indeed not a matter of opinion but your (and most) view(s) are as far as i can tell a bit short sited.
1) “Sighted”. Perhaps you should work on learning English before you try interpreting the fine points of Law?
2) If you aren’t a complete NOOB to this blog, perhaps you ought to read the earlier summary of events, by an attorney, which Fausta and Etonomic have both broken down the events extensively. The Law in Honduras is clear. The issue is not subject to rational variance in interpretation on any of the main points:
1) It was legal (that is, in full and complete accordance with the demands of the Honduran Constitution)
2) It was not a “military coup” — The military was directed to do as it did by another government body with the clear authority to do so, and did not place one of their own members or direct associates (i.e., a puppet) in power.
3) The ones who took over afterward were members of Zelaya’s own party, also duly elected.
Again — first, work on those English skills. Second, try reading the back story rather than listening to Obama and CNN’s “interpretation”, neither of which have much of anything to do with reality.
That raving lunatic had paid 200,000 Lps. (roughly $10,500) which is slightly more than thrice the minimum YEARLY wage in Honduras.
He also had two paintings commissioned (sporting a ridiculous pastel blue suit) in which he is featured alongside notable ex-presidents and national heroes.
These are signs of megalomania (attempting to remain in power forever notwithstanding)
At his point Chavez is pushing it solely because he has spent too much money on Zelaya, and Zelaya has no way to pay him back (except on his back, *shudder*).
ohbloodyhell- The law/constitution in Honduras was written under a military dictatorship and that is most certainly not open to interpretation because that is what happened. It is clearly wrong to leave people living under such an injustice, like in Iraq, Myanmar, Nth Korea…etc!
However I have been working on my English skills. Note I’m the one that noticed I used “it’s” not “its” in my submission #26….you didn’t!! Also you may have noticed I’m not big on injustices, hence my disdain for my Queen and The Queen’s English!! Oooh the injustices of the British and Spanish Crowns and the U.S. Empire….HMMMMM!!!
So back to the military dictatorship and the oligarchy that wrote the Honduran constitution. I take it you are very much in favor of nations being born of injustice? Well mate I am not! A good analogy may be that THE LAW in Nth Korea is also written in a very clear fashion but I will never agree with them. Do you?
Oh and I don’t know why you think I like Obama (Obama is the change you have when you’re not having change mate)and the Empire’s reach is not so great that I have access to CNN…but try again.
Eduardo- The U.S. was run by a coke-fiend for eight years. One of those four year terms was secured by a very undemocratic decision (especially since the deciding stated was administered by the winners brother)…..I’m wondering if you ever objected?
Also I can find no reference to Zelaya being on coke….were you with him at the time or just suplying???
Why should I object to what the US does with its government?
*shrugs* His use of drugs has been a point of discussion since before he was elected president.
Eduardo, the reasons for you to object to the administration of the U.S. by a “coke-head” is the same reason an Aussie would object to the lack of democracy in Honduras, or Honduras being run by a “coke-head” (if true). That is because there is only one planet(and it is now small, very small). It may interest you to know my issues are not with Zelaya, or Chavez, or Bush, nor Obama, and most certainly not Cuba. It may however interest you to know I find Cuba to be an oligarchy, and you can relax! Neither is my biggest beef with you!!
What I do disagree with is the Nationalist stance taken by “The West” during the Cold War e.g. Iraq is a sovereign nation, so there is nothing we can do about Saddam Hussein (whom we installed); Chile is sovereign and Pinochet is right to act as he does.
Yet now The U.S. believes in globalised capital (death to the nation state) and says such people are wrong!! Can you see the contradiction/problem??